My Interview with Dean Karnazes – Ultramarathon Man!

On August 10, 2010 I had the opportunity to interview the Ultramarathon Man, Dean Karnazes, by telephone from his home in San Francisco. Karnazes has written the New York Times’ best selling book, Ultramarathon Man: Confessions of an All Night Runner and, 50/50: Secrets I Learned Running 50 Marathons in 50 Days. He has also competed in thousands of ultramarathon races and has even run up to 350 miles in 80 hours without stopping. Never one to slow down or to stop dreaming up his next challenge, Karnazes has many upcoming adventures and has a new book hitting shelves next spring.

Karnazes will be running the TransRockies Race in Colorado August 22 – August 27. The 6-day 113 mile trail  run climbs over mountain peaks and reaches elevations of 12,500 feet. I am lucky enough to be able to run with Karnazes as my partner for Stage One/Day One of the race, which is 20.4 miles. Gore-Tex will be my host.

The Interview:

I have to ask, did you run this morning?

DK: (laughs) Of course.

How far did you go?

DK: A quick ten miles. Then I’ll go out for another ten miles this afternoon. I’ll run up a 2,500 foot hill.

I didn’t know there were any hills in San Francisco! (being sarcastic here)

DK: (laughs) Just a few.

How many miles do you average per week?

DK: My mileage ranges from 50-60 miles per week on up to 200 miles sometimes. It varies a lot because I travel so much. Last year I was on the road for 250 days.

There will be many runners reading this interview who are struggling to get through running 40-60 miles per week during training. They get burned out. Do you ever get sick of running?

DK: I love to run and I have some tips to keep it fresh and novel. I rarely use the same route twice. That keeps things new. It’s better to listen to your body than to your watch or your training schedule. Rules are meant to be broken. If you are feeling good, go faster than your recommended pace. Have fun with it. Go out for an eight hour run. Don’t worry about pace. Bring cash or a credit card. Pick a new and unchartered area with the goal to just be out there moving. Interact with people along the way. If you see a Starbucks and want a latte, stop for one. Make it about the experience. I always say, “Listen to everyone, follow no one.”

About how many pairs of running/trail shoes do you own?

DK: I go through 25-30 pairs a year. Multiply that by 20 years….

What personality changes, if any, have you noticed in yourself since you’ve been running?

DK: You know, the lessons of running translate into the lessons of life. I notice that I’ve mellowed my perspective. There’s a saying for ultra runners “when you’re feeling really good at the end of a race you start reeling in people.” Some days you are the fish and some days you are the fisherman. Running really teaches you humility.

You are really well known for all of your accomplishments and amazing feats as an ultra runner. What are YOU proudest of?

DK: I’ve raced on all seven continents at least twice. I’ve probably run thousands of races. But the single race that I’m most proud is a 10K. Yes, a 10K. I ran it with my daughter on her 10^th birthday.

Do you have any pre-race rituals?

DK: No, not really. A lot of people get nervous before a race. I am always nervous before the start of a race. It helps me to say to myself to try my very best. That is my commitment. No matter how bad it gets, I will try my hardest. I put the blinders on and try to be the best me I can be that day. With running you can’t cheat yourself or take any short cuts. You have to pay your dues. There are moments where you are struggling and you need to look internally.

What’s the most embarrassing thing that’s ever happened to you on a run?

DK: I was going to run this little race called the Badwater Ultramarathon. I would just be taking a jog through Death Valley (laughs). I had this brainiac idea to make a toga-like/kilt outfit. It would go over my knees and protect me and let the air flow. My wife, who is kind of an amateur seamstress, bought some UV protective fabric and sewed up this skirt. While I was running, it started to fall apart. Disintegrating. I kept spinning it around to the front to cover all the major body parts, but it kept getting smaller and smaller until it was a swatch. Pretty soon people were driving by cheering me on. I thought, ‘What great support!’ They were really cheering because my ass was hanging out! I don’t think I’ve told that story before.

Ever have G.I. issues on runs like the rest of us?

DK: Yes, I get those things. I just don’t see them as problems. If you run for over 80 hours at a time you’re going to have to go. I carry toilet paper in my running pack. McDonalds is the best food chain on earth. I don’t eat the food, but they have the cleanest bathrooms.

Let’s talk about this third book you’re writing. Can you give us a teaser?

DK: I just submitted it with Rodale [Publishing]. It’s called, “RUN! 26.2 Stories of Blisters and Bliss.” They are short adventure stories about running marathons on all seven continents. Most of the stories are by me, but some are from guest contributors. It comes out next spring.

I know you’ve talked about a goal of running a marathon in every country in a year’s time. That’s 270 countries times 26.2 miles. I did the math for you: 7,074 miles! Are you still working on making this happen?

DK: This is absolutely something I am working on. I love the idea from the standpoint of - how can we possibly pull this off? It is daunting in every way.

I’ve heard you say that “the best thing you can do as a runner is choose your parents.” Were your parents runners?

DK: Yes, my dad’s a marathoner. He used to do sprint distances and then started marathoning. My mom is an endurance animal. She does three day events like the Susan G. Komen three day walk.

Since the Tour de France ended a couple of weeks ago there’s been a resurgence of talk about Lance Armstrong and doping. What do you think of the subject?

DK: I personally think it’s tragic. As much as I love to compete, that’s the dark side of competition. I love the ultramarathon because no matter if you are first or last, you get the same thing: a belt buckle. And, you get the self gratification of knowing what you accomplished.

Could you beat Pheidippides [first known marathoner] in a foot race?

DK: (laughs). If it meant dying at the end.

Now for some rapid fire questions. Answer in three seconds or so:

Three things in your refrigerator:

DK: Greek yogurt, lettuce, coconut water

M&Ms or Reeses:

DK: Neither. I’ve changed. No more junk food. I’ve gone clean.

Brand of toilet paper?

DK: (laughs). I can’t remember the name. Something flowery, velvety and soft.

Guilty pleasure?

DK: That’s easy. Chocolate covered espresso beans.

Alcohol, yes or no?

DK: Yes,  a glass of red wine periodically. It’s great for recovery.

What’s on your nightstand?

DK: The book, “The Four Hour Work Week” by my friend Timothy Ferriss. He’s a runner too.

What shows do you Tivo?

DK: I don’t even have a Tivo. I don’t watch TV. Maybe the news every once in awhile. What am I missing?

Me: Just the Bachelorette!

Ipod, yes or no?

DK: Yes. I use an iPod for about ¼ of my runs. I also love to read, but don’t have much time, so I listen to lots of books on my iPod

Baklava or ice cream?

DK: Baklava of course!! I’m Greek!

Now, we’re off to the hills to run some mountains! See you there, Dean. And thanks for your time.

 

PS: I did use some of your question suggestions. Thanks to Jamoosh for the M&Ms vs. Reeses question, M.J. for her question about how Dean’s personality might have changed with running, Trailmomma for her question about pre- race rituals and, G. Schleuse for her question about what accomplishment Dean is most proud of. I loved all the insightful questions, but just couldn’t use them all.

Training Your Mind and Drymax Sock Review

As I close in my second marathon, mental strength is on my mind.  Thank you for all of your feedback and suggestions about what to do when all you want to do is stop. You all are pretty smart after all.

I want to know that when the going gets tough, my mind will pull me through. Lord knows it has before. I found a great article in Men’s Fitness that gave me some stuff to think about.

I don’t usually read Men’s Fitness because I’m not that into how to build strength in my penis and please my lady with my rock hard abs, but this one was pretty worthwhile. Oh, wait, that’s Men’s Health that has those creepy articles. Sorry.

It’s titled, “Breaking through the wall” by Michael Bane Men’s Fitness (1999). He looks at training your mind, pre-race, for the obstacles to come:

• Accept that a portion of your race will be run on a mental panorama, and that it can be a scary place. It's a landscape littered with your own failures and successes, your pains and your losses. It's home to mythical creatures and places of legend, and your journey will be uniquely your own.
• Understand that you may be beset by storms of powerful emotions - exhilaration, despair, fury. But like storms, these spikes of emotion pass and have no meaning. I once ran alongside a woman who described how she planned to kill her new husband, because she hated the bastard so much. I don't think she talked like that when she wasn't running.
• Never question your goal. The completion of a marathon is more than an objective. It's a summit, like a beautiful mountain peak, and has the power to capture and hold a person's imagination. A trick I use is to "table" the mental discussion of whether this particular event was a good or a bad idea; I set it aside to deal with later. Then I focus on why this particular summit seemed so interesting.
• Let go of judgments. While your mind is bouncing hither and yon, sooner or later it's going to land on the "Why am I running so badly today?" square. Rather than expend that mental energy on judging my performance, I repeat one of my favorite mantras: "Nothing proves anything."
•  Negotiate with your body. Crazy as it sounds, I carry on a mental conversation with my body. Before the race, I explain what is expected and acknowledge that it's going to hurt. I apologize in advance and promise that I'll make it up to my body somehow. Amazingly, my body continues to believe me.
• Finally, what do you do if you hit the Wall, when you meet your dragon? Why, nothing, of course. Keep running, that's all.

I think my favorite bullet point is about the peaks and valleys of the race. You will experience a full range of emotions and the only thing to count on is that they will pass and be replaced by something else.

Next up in a future p0st: Five ways to avoid the dreaded wall and what to do if/when you hit it.

On an unrelated note: I have found a new favorite running item. I follow Jamie Donaldson’s blog. She is an ultra runner from Colorado, but not just any ultra runner. She is the two time female winner of Badwater (2008 and 2009) and many, many other endurance running races.

I’ve had some blister problems recently and asked her advice. After suffering major running-blisters for years, she now swears by Drymax socks. In fact, they are one of her sponsors. She just ran and won the Philadelphia 100 Mile Endurance Run 14 hours 58 minutes – an average pace of 8:58 over 100 miles. Here are her feet after the race. Don’t see any blisters? That’s because there are none.

 

She offered to send me a pair of her blister blasters: Drymax Maximum Protection Running Socks (mini crew for running). Yesterday, I got these babies in the mail:

Today I tried them out. Jamie did not ask me to review these on the blog, but I had to. Just putting them on is like slipping on comfy slippers. They have a fair amount of cushioning, are made of soft material and a provide a snug fit. Once I started running in them on my track run today, I knew they would be my go-to sock because:

• Majorly comfortable, cushy even
• Flat toe seam
• Breathable mesh on the top of the foot and toes
• Blister guard system (uses material to reduce friction)
• Dual layers to keep feet dry
• Comfort, comfort, comfort
• I can run 100 miles in them at an 8:58 pace

Unfortunately, these are not cheap, but after having tried them, I am willing to pay a bit more for comfort on long training runs and while running races. The best deal I found was $19.74 per pair from Amazing Socks.

Just a thought for you runners who are suffering the wrath of those pus filled bubbles. Ick.

Today’s funny (it’s not a post from me if it doesn’t have potty stuff). I got an email from Ken today saying this would be my mother’s day present. Nice and romantic. Because nothing says “Happy Mother’s Day” like a flatulence deodorizer (fancy name for fart masker):

Now you know why I married the guy. Happy Tuesday.

That Starbucks Guy Runs Too Much

Today I had to take my own advice. Stop thinking about it and start moving. I woke up to gray skies and 35 degrees. Call me crazy, but sitting with the Sunday paper and a big cup of coffee sounded more appealing than an 8 mile run. Just so I couldn't back out, I rolled out of bed and into my running clothes. I figured I would looks stupid reading the paper in my tights and Under Armour and the kids would just keep asking me when/if I was going to run. Better to just go do it. Plus, Ken was coming along and it's way easier to get out there with someone else than on your own.

I'd like to say the run was the best ever and I got inspired and I was so glad to be out there. But, really, it was just okay. I was sluggish. The air smelled like cow shit. There were big hills. I felt queasy. My stomach cramped, but I farted and felt better. In the end we did 8 miles in 1 hour, 10 minutes. Not the fastest but still a respectable (in my book) 8:52 min/mile pace.

Afterwards, I went to Starbucks to grab a misto. I was wearing my Boulder Marathon running hat. The baristo (is that masculine for barista?) asked me if I was gong to run that race again this year. He said he had done his first half at that race this year. In my head I'm thinking, "Ah, a new runner. Doing is first half." So, I ask him how his first half went. His reply? "Well I had done a 100K the weekend before and I just wanted to see how it would go doing a shorter race with a different crowd." My head was spinning as I tried to add up how many miles a 100K was. I know a 10K is 6.2 miles, so it must be close to...holy shit 60 miles! And if I was a mathematician or even slightly smart I would've known immediately that 6.2 x 100 = 62 but I think all that smell of cow shit had killed some brain cells. So much for cute boy doing his first half. He quickly moved from being coy and vulnerable first-half-boy to slightly annoying stud.

And, if this wasn't enough, I got the following text from my 12 year old son when I got home:


I wasn't sure if I should call social services to come pick him up or if I should congratulate him for being clever. I know it is my fault he writes these things since I make may pooping habits fairly public. For what it's worth, I don't just poop my pants whenever, like when I'm watching American Idol (although I did love the "pants on the ground" song). The crapping of the pants only happens sometimes and only when I'm exerting myself beyond what is safe on a run. And it's not a huge turd, but more of a squirt. Just to clarify.

I am going to make my first million developing a running short with built-in Depends. What are your goals?


Drinking: H20. Trying to re-hydrate.